Deb Zahn: I want to welcome you to this week's episode of The Craft of Consulting Podcast. So this is going to be an episode where I'm talking about podcasts and I mean specifically, you taking advantage of the magic which is a podcast in order to generate revenue for your consulting business. And will go so far as to say that if you're not engaged with podcasts in some way, you are likely leaving money on the table. And I don't want you to leave money on the table and I don't want you to leave work that you really want to do on the table. So I brought someone on, Noah Tetzner, who is someone who really knows the power of podcasts, as well as how to do them specifically to serve your business goals. And he and I are going to walk through the details of not just, oh, yeah, do a podcast, but how to do a podcast that actually puts revenue in your pocket. So let's get started. I want to welcome my guest today, Noah Tetzner. Noah, welcome to the show.

Noah Tetzner: Well, thank you so much for having me, Deb. And as you're well aware because I've told you, I've been listening to Craft of Consulting for quite a few years, so this is a real treat for me.

Deb Zahn: I love hearing that. Thank you so much. Well, let's start off, tell my listeners what you do.

Noah Tetzner: Absolutely. Well, so I am a B2B podcast consultant. I've been in the podcasting industry since 2018, so a few years now. And it all started when I created my own podcast, a historical podcast called The History of Vikings. That sort of had an academic, scholarly flair to it. And I grew that podcast to a large audience...50,000 downloads per month within five months of launching the show. And since then, I have done many different things. I have definitely had a winding path in the podcasting industry. But I'm a consultant now, so I primarily help businesses, personal brands, executives, or business owners utilize podcasting to build revenue for themselves or their companies.

Deb Zahn: That's fabulous. And probably one of the coolest answers that you started with Vikings, so I do love that. My husband is going to listen to one, by the way, he's very excited.

Noah Tetzner: That's awesome.

Deb Zahn: So we wanted to hone in on podcasts. Obviously, both you and I love them.

Noah Tetzner: Yes.

Deb Zahn: We understand the power of them, but they really can be used for the purpose of generating leads and ultimately revenue, but that might be surprising to some. So we want to take that mystery away, but it also doesn't automatically do that. So we want to dig into: If you're going to do that, which we think you should, then how do you do it in such a way that it actually serves your business goals? And I know one of the things that you emphasize is relationships with guests. So talk a little bit about what that in the best form looks like that again serves business purposes.

Noah Tetzner: Absolutely. Absolutely, Deb, happy to do so. So I think most people listening to this podcast, and this is kind of common sense, are fairly aligned with this notion of podcasting as a way to build authority, establish thought-leadership in your particular niche or industry. Podcasting is also a great way to build an audience. These are people that could potentially be your customers or clients of some variety. But it's actually quite difficult, it can be, to build relationships with the many. So whether you have 10,000 people listening to your podcast a month, or you have 100 people listening to your podcast a month, these are people tuning in from all over the world, across different time zones, who have varying degrees of interest in your particular subject.

So my own podcast that I'm hosting these days, which Deb was a wonderful guest on, so be sure to check out that interview, is called Profit With Podcasting. And my listeners are many different people. They're consultants. They're freelancers. They're B2B marketers. These are people from many different stages of life. And those people, I can connect with each in a different way. The best way, in my opinion, to generate revenue via a podcast is through building relationships with your podcast guests. So let me just set the stage for those listening.

Imagine that you recorded 52 podcast interviews. That's one a week per year with the ideal right fit, hard-to-reach prospects for your business. These are people that could be clients. These are people who are decision-makers within organizations who you would love to work for, organizations that have the right budget. They're aligned with your consultancy's values, and they're people that: Wouldn't they just be a delight to work for? You could invite those people as guests on your podcast. Now of course, first of all, we have to build a relationship with those people. Gone are the days of going up to someone at a conference and vaguely introducing yourself and shaking their hand.

Podcast-based networking or content-based networking is the way to go. So I have done this many times myself, and I've generated revenue for my own consultancy through this tactic. It's very effective. People have written books on it and so forth. And it is something that is only starting to sort of enter into popular knowledge of how to generate revenue through a podcast. So let's say that my ideal prospect for my consultancy, Profit With Podcasting, is the CEO of a marketing agency. What I might do and what I have done is I would send them an email. I would find their direct email address. I wouldn't message anyone else at the company. I would find their direct email address, LinkedIn Sales Navigator, rocketreach.co, a great way to source those email addresses. Or you could contact the press or media email of that company.

And I would invite them as a guest on my podcast. I wouldn't sell them on anything that I'm doing. I would invite them as a guest on my show. And that way, I've built a relationship. I've taken off my sales hat and I've put on my journalist hat. And it's really hard to explain for those who haven't done it. But Deb, I know you're well aware.

Deb Zahn: Oh, yeah.

Noah Tetzner: When you conduct a podcast interview with somebody, it is like magic. I mean, you can go from awkward, how's the weather where you live, before the interview, to really engaging discussions in that time period after the interview. Some people call it the campfire effect. It's kind of like if you've been camping and you're up late around the campfire. Everyone's kind of giddy and joyful. It's that kind of campfire effect, that just vibrance relationship sequence. So a great way to build relationships is through podcast interviews.

Deb Zahn: Well, and you and I know that most people you ask are going to say yes because most people haven't been on podcasts before. And whenever I've asked somebody who hasn't been on a podcast, it's a mix of definitely some nervousness, but they get giddy.

Noah Tetzner: They do.

Deb Zahn: Because you're basically saying, "I think you're such an expert in X and you are such a thought leader in this, that I want to share it with the world on my platform."

Noah Tetzner: Exactly.

Deb Zahn: A little bit different than I want to do a meeting with you to pitch something to you.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly, exactly. It's that give to get. I'm giving you publicity in a platform, in a well-polished interview in exchange for a little bit of your time. And then in their minds, you will be seen as somebody who is a friend, somebody who's taking an interest in their work.

Deb Zahn: That's great. I love that. And I love that you mention you go directly to them, so it doesn't seem salesy and like you're making something up. That's wonderful. And then is there a way that you follow up in particular after they've been on your podcast that then furthers that relationship?

Noah Tetzner: Yeah. So that's such a great question, Deb. It really depends. You have to use your intuition. And it depends on the particular guest. So I'll just give an example. So on my own podcast, Profit With Podcasting, one of my ideal clients happens to be owners of marketing agencies, or PR agencies, or web development agencies. That happens to be one of my ideal client avatars. So there have been times where I was so familiar with a guest, the ideal prospect's work, that after the interview, they proceeded to ask me to tell more about what I do for a living. And I did, and they said, "Oh, we're actually looking for somebody who does that exact thing." Podcasting is popular. Podcasting is hot. Otherwise, if you just keep asking questions: How has your business been doing over the last year? What are your marketing goals? Have you ever considered podcasting? Have you ever considered this? Those are great questions to sort of set the stage directly after the interview.

Sometimes things can happen quickly and naturally, otherwise, you might send them an email as soon as the podcast is live. Here's a link to your episode. And by the way, I was thinking. Have you ever considered this for your business? Another thing that you could do is invite them six months later or three months later to guest on your podcast for a second time. Hey, your first interview was received so well. That'll kind of give you even more of an opportunity to build a relationship. And I've talked with people who've used this tactic in really sort of drawn-out linear fashion. I know some colleagues who, what they'll do is they'll invite someone as a guest on their podcast.

And over the course of three months, they'll follow a sequence where it's like send guests link to live episode. Send them an actual book, recommending a chapter that would do well for their business. And you can actually buy these home interior decorator framed quotes of a quote that the guest said during their interview on your podcast and send them those as a gift for participating in the interview. In my experience, things have happened fairly quickly, usually anywhere between one week to two months, sometimes six months after the interview.

Deb Zahn: How do you prepare your questions so that they have a certain experience with you, if you know what I'm asking?

Noah Tetzner: I do. I do because one of the things for those listening who are considering starting a podcast is when you ask people nuanced questions about their business, questions that they know that you did your research to ask those questions, they light up. So what I do is I will just conduct research. LinkedIn is a great place to start. In addition to reading all about them on their profile, follow some of their work. Follow some of the articles that maybe they've published on LinkedIn, or Medium, or something like that. And those are things you can bring up. Bring up specific things. Bring up past interviews they've done. During the interview, “Hey, so and so, in 2018, you wrote an article about this topic. I just found that fascinating.”

Deb Zahn: People can't see me. I'm grinning ear to ear because I recognize the sort of Jedi stuff that's going on behind this because you are now further establishing your authority while you're getting them to like you, while they're getting to know you. And you're doing it without trying to sell them something.

Noah Tetzner: Absolutely. That's the key is sort of give to get.

Deb Zahn: I love that. Now I know you also talk about strategic partnerships as another benefit. And I've been on the receiving and giving end of those via my podcast. Talk about what those can do in terms of generating revenue.

Noah Tetzner: Yeah. I mean, strategic partnerships, they can be vast. There's many different things you can do. When I first started my podcast, The History of Vikings, which every episode was an interview with a historian or scholar about a medieval Scandinavian topic, some of my strategic partners were World History Encyclopedia, one of the web's largest encyclopedias of historic topics, other heritage trusts and things like that. And our strategic partnerships were distribution partnerships. So we agreed to share one another's content via social media for certain periods of time. Hey, if you share our weekly podcast episodes with your 300,000 plus Facebook followers, we'll put links to recommended articles that pertain to each episode topic.

So distribution partnerships are a great way to grow your audience. Also, if your guest happens to be the host of another podcast, there's different things that could happen. Maybe their appearance on your show could lead to an appearance on theirs. Maybe you're creating a webinar or they're creating a webinar, and they're looking for guests. If the person hosts a live, and usually nowadays virtual event, and virtual events are wonderful because people are looking for subject matter experts to speak in those virtual conferences and so forth. And if you have a podcast, that really does well to convey thought leadership and expertise. So those are some other things you can do. Different affiliate and referral partnerships, certainly people are always willing to go with those.

To be honest, I haven't really leveraged affiliate relationships too much in my own experience. Not much against them, I just don't have enough experience. But those are a few of the strategic partnerships that I have experience with.

Deb Zahn: I love it. I love it. And in my world of consultants, I've actually sent business to folks and they've sent business to me because we now know each other better. And so even if somebody doesn't end up being a client in the scenario we're talking about, they have such warm and fuzzies and good feelings about you that if they're in other conversations, they might be a referral source to you. And that's a more informal strategic partnership. There are ways that people have made that more formal. But even informally, that's a beautiful thing because now they know, you know who knows about that. And I know that because they ask me the right questions.

Noah Tetzner: Right. And wouldn't you agree, Deb, that sometimes those...I mean, there's some people listening who might think it's counterintuitive, but sometimes those informal partnerships are the most powerful ones because those are the friendships with people.

Deb Zahn: That's right. The real relationship stuff, where you're helping because you want to help and because you're impressed with the person and what they do, I love that. So if someone's hearing this and they're like, "Wait a minute, that sounds fabulous. It sounds like I'm leaving money on the table if I don't do that." And I think you and I would say, "You're darn right you are."

Noah Tetzner: Oh, yes.

Deb Zahn: Me too. We're going to talk about first steps later of how you would actually do it. But how do you actually grow an audience then? Obviously having folks on you want as clients is one strategy. But ultimately, you want a broader reach. What are some of the ways that you actually can do that? And what does it do for you when you do?

Noah Tetzner: Yeah. So the first step before even thinking about growing an audience that you have to have is, you have to have good content. And you have to generate something of a halo effect. So halo effect meaning that for example, if I start a podcast, and it's an interview-based podcast, I want to right out of the gate try to book interviews with leaders in my field. These do not have to be celebrities, but these are people that are well connected and well known within your niche field. That will do a lot of things for you. That will because so and so was on your podcast, your podcast is now seen as this reputable thing. It will make booking interviews easier in the future. It will make approaching strategic partners and collaborators, it will make everything so much easier once you've established that credibility.

So even if you have a great show with credibility, you still probably don't have a lot of listeners, which is OK. Ultimately, what you need to do is you need to connect with people who have audiences of your potential listeners, collaboration, inviting a podcaster to guest on your show and you guesting on theirs is one of the best ways to grow an audience. The average podcast listener consumes seven different shows per week. So statistically, if someone's listening to a podcast about consulting, they're also probably going to be listening to Craft of Consulting as well, so that's one of those statistics.

So collaborating with other podcasters is the best way. Also, I mean, there's many different things you can do. So if I had on my History of Vikings Podcast, what I would do, and actually, on my recent podcast, Profit With Podcasting, I interviewed on that show, John Lee Dumas, who a lot of you are probably familiar with, one of the pioneer podcasters, internet marketers. When I interviewed John on my show, not only did I ask John's team to share the interview on social media, but John had recently published a book. So I emailed his publisher, and his publisher shared a link. And I emailed other people who knew John or were friends with him and could promote that interview.

So think to yourself, "Who does my guest know? Can I get them to share it?" And whether or not they do share it, who else can I ask? So if somebody's written a book, email the book publisher, who probably has a large tight-knit following. It's all about collaborating with other people. Getting featured in media is a great way to do that. Becoming a contributor for a blog, or a website, or a newsletter within your field is a wonderful way to grow an audience.

Deb Zahn: I love that. And even though a lot of speaking is virtually right now, speaking is a great way to do that.

Noah Tetzner: Oh, yes.

Deb Zahn: If somebody says, "You have a podcast," your stakes go up tremendously, interestingly enough because not everybody has that. Now I think this is helpful for folks to understand because putting up a podcast isn't the end of the process and just doing interviews. You do actually want to grow your audience. But you can still generate revenue, even if you don't have a huge audience. Share a little bit about how you might do that, aside from your guests are going to be hungry to hire you. What can you do, even if you don't have a ton of listeners?

Noah Tetzner: Yeah, absolutely. And I will say that the revenue I've generated throughout my podcasting journey, 90% of it has actually not come from the fact that I had a large listenership. It was through the individual relationships I built with guests through the podcast. To provide an example, I did a show called Lessons From a Homeschooler. The homeschooling industry is $2.5 billion. It's booming. And I happen to have been a homeschool graduate myself. What I did is basically the premise of the show was I would interview curriculum publishers and leading advocates in the homeschooling industry. And that show I think was in its prime getting 100 downloads a month, so not many at all.

Yet, I conducted I want to say nine interviews, and I think four out of the nine were converted into immediate revenue. And then there were some other opportunities that came from there. So a couple of different ways that I generated revenue through those relationships, one company that I interviewed on the podcast, I interview the president of the company, was a nonprofit curriculum publisher. I ended up producing a podcast for their company. Another company actually offered me a job, which I, unfortunately, had to decline. Another company, I started working as a contractor for. Again, they offered me a full-time position. I unfortunately had to decline. Another company wasn't a lot of revenue by any means, but the results were wonderful. I got to write a feature in the Homeschooling Trade Magazine, the Homeschooling Trade publication. So there are a lot of different things that came from that.

And then ultimately, being interviewed on other podcasts. And homeschooling, like I think so many industries that listeners and consultants work in is very tight-knit. A lot of the leading experts know each other and are friends with each other, so it was like a domino effect. Once I got one person, it was easy to build relationships with a lot of them as well.

Deb Zahn: So there's a common thread in a lot of what you're saying, which I want to emphasize for listeners because it's so important. It's part of our first steps conversation, is if it's a business strategy, you have to have a strategy that's related to business.

Noah Tetzner: Yes, exactly.

Deb Zahn: So how would you help or encourage folks to gain clarity around that? Because it could be they haven't done the work, and they should, to define their ideal client. So they may randomly ask guests to come on. But what are those things that you would say do first in order for it to be truly a business strategy and not something that they think they're doing for business, but it's not going to generate anything?

Noah Tetzner: So first and foremost, when you invite a right fit prospect or a potential collaborator, what have you on your show, just like anything in business, there's no guarantee that you'll end up working with that person. The best you can do is give yourself a really awesome at-bat, and then you can go for it. What I do typically is, when I invite someone on my show, and I have subject matter experts who I just find interesting, is in the back of my head I'll be like, "After this interview, assuming it goes well, what are different things that we could do?" So in my case, that has looked everything from this person could be a potential client, I know that this person has a close relationship with this person, who could be a potential client, and they could make an introduction. This person has a large following. Perhaps they could share my interview. This person is the editor of a magazine. Perhaps I could write an article. This person, I am legitimately interested in the advice they have to say.

I've interviewed people on my show who, I mean, Deb, you're a great example, I had listened to Craft of Consulting for many years before we got in touch. And I legitimately was interested in every single question I asked you in my interview about consulting. I legitimately wanted to learn. And that is something that I think a lot of people underestimate. If you have a one-hour interview with somebody knowledgeable on your podcast, I mean, think of how much money that person might charge in terms of one on one coaching.

Deb Zahn: Oh, yeah.

Noah Tetzner: I can't even be able to describe. And just people are willing to lend a helping hand. I've asked people for references to virtual assistants and different things afterward. That's invaluable. So go into each interview thinking, "How could I collaborate with this person in some way?" Specific questions, different opportunities.

Deb Zahn: That's right, and ways that you could potentially add value to them because the way you're talking about it that this makes me happy is that you treat it like a real relationship.

Noah Tetzner: Yes.

Deb Zahn: And you look at it through multiple business lenses, not just one, so that maybe it's not someone you would ever necessarily want to work with. But they might have access to other people that do. And now you have a relationship, which you can now ask for things and give things, and do all kinds of things normal people do in normal relationships. I love that.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly.

Deb Zahn: I love that. So if someone's listening to this, they're like, "All right. I love this. I'm digging this," what are some of the first things that they should do in order to get off on the right foot?

Noah Tetzner: So the first thing that I would recommend is that you just start working on your podcast. You don't need to read 800 books before you start your podcast. Just start. And it's so easy. I mean, there are so many different resources for that. Simply put, you really only need a few things, a microphone, the ATR 2100. Is that the one you're using, Deb?

Deb Zahn: That's the one I have.

Noah Tetzner: Awesome. I think that's approximately maybe a little less than $100. I use that microphone myself occasionally. That's so great. That plugs right into your computer. You need a way to record things. Zoom works great. Otherwise, riverside.fm is what I use, or Zencastr. Those are very affordable options, especially Zoom. You can commission a graphic designer to make your podcast cover artwork, 3000 by 3000 pixels. JPEG. And then you need a podcast hosting company, which 15 to 20 bucks a month. I use captivate.fm. There's Libsyn, there's everything. And then you start recording interviews via Zoom or what have you. Read a couple of articles on what that looks like. I would definitely encourage you to hire a podcast editor.

Deb Zahn: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Noah Tetzner: You might be all gung ho about your podcast at first, but life is not static and life happens.

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Noah Tetzner: Having somebody who is their area of expertise is just going to help you so much. And I would look into that and then just start contacting your ideal people, and then conduct interviews with them and show an interest in their work. And I promise you, things will start to happen.

Deb Zahn: And show an interest in their work. I also want to highlight that because if you're going to be in someone's ear for 30 minutes to an hour and you're not interested, they're not going to be interested.

Noah Tetzner: Yes.

Deb Zahn: And I'm not sure if this still holds true, but the last stat I saw is that most podcasts don't make it past number seven.

Noah Tetzner: Yes.

Deb Zahn: And so one is, don't try and get fancy. Hire someone to edit. Set up your systems. Make it easy as you possibly can for you to produce. But they have to be interesting, which means you have to be interested in what you're talking about.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly.

Deb Zahn: Don't pick something that bores you, or you'll never do it and no one will ever listen to it.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly. That's such a great point, Deb. You have to be passionate about what you're talking about. You have to have a genuine interest in each person you interview. Don't invite them just to build a relationship for the sake of doing it, but show interest. This has to be someone that you like.

Deb Zahn: Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And I love yous don't wring your hands a whole lot. I didn't actually wring my hands a whole lot. I knew I was going to do it, and then I thought, "Well, there's all these decisions to make." And when someone said, "Hosting company," I didn't even know what that meant. And I just went and looked at somebody's YouTube, Pat Flynn, who's quite famous.

Noah Tetzner: Oh, yeah.

Deb Zahn: And a great podcaster, and I said, "I don't need to try and be smarter than him. I just need to find out what he did." And because he's so generous, he told us what he did.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly.

Deb Zahn: He has courses and other things, where you really can get probably better than how I did it. A delay doesn't help you with your business.

Noah Tetzner: No. And it's one of those things where human beings learn best, I mean, you have to educate yourself and so forth. But you ultimately are going to learn best by doing.

Deb Zahn: That's right. And you'll get better every time. And don't worry that your first one's awful.

Noah Tetzner: Oh, exactly. Exactly.

Deb Zahn: Exactly. That can be a gag reel later.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly, it can. And I've had listeners email me. And they've said, "Noah, I've listened to your podcast for over a year and I can hear how you've improved from episode to episode." People are truly forgiving.

Deb Zahn: They really are, as long as you're interested, talking about something that's valuable to them, and you set up a good rapport with who you're interviewing, they don't care that there's little flubs. I have a cat who's snoring very loudly next to me right now.

Noah Tetzner: Aw.

Deb Zahn: I'm sure some people are going to hear that. So what? Doesn't matter because you're interesting.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly. And I think, I mean, that just contributes to the personal side of podcasting.

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Noah Tetzner: Hearing people flip through the pages of their books and sip their coffee, and their cat snoring, that's what makes us human.

Deb Zahn: That's right, and that's what people like. So if folks need help, what do you do to help folks? And where can folks find you?

Noah Tetzner: Yeah. So you guys can find me at profitwithpodcasting.com. My podcast is available on all platforms, Profit With Podcasting. What I do to help people is I help them navigate all of the stages of podcasting from conceptualizing the show, talking about their business and their goals. Who are their ideal prospects? How we can connect with them, how we can brand the podcast. What will the name of the podcast and the format be? Right to building lists of potential clients with relevant contact information and just every step of the way, growing the audience through different strategies unique to that person's niche. So I really help people in all aspects of that. But yeah, again, Profit With Podcasting.

Deb Zahn: And I can tell you having that kind of assistance at the beginning when you're learning the technology and how things actually work, but you have to do art. Having that kind of help is invaluable. And I will tell you an example that I had, which is why I wish I had help when I first started, is I had my art. And the person who did my art just didn't do something right. And it wouldn't load, and my podcast was starting the next day or something like that. And I was on a Facebook group for podcasters, and I asked a question, and everybody started giving me all of this technical information, none of which I understood. And I finally, in true New Yorker fashion said, "50 bucks to the next person who solves this for me." And this lovely person solved it for me. She didn't want the $50. I said, "Give me a charity you want me to donate it to." We donated it, it was a great relationship.

Noah Tetzner: That's awesome.

Deb Zahn: She was later on my podcast. She's fabulous. But if you can have the help at the beginning, you're going to skip a lot of frustration. You're going to skip a lot of the mistakes that you're going to make just because you just don't know how it works. And you're going to get to the revenue goal faster. And I'm saying this not as an affiliate of yours. I'm saying this because this was my experience. And I think it could've been a lot easier if I had help.

Noah Tetzner: Oh, well, thank you, Deb. And I so agree, you only need to be doing what you can do. I can't think, and I say this from experience because I too, through blood, sweat, and tears, forged ahead in my first days of podcasting. I cannot think of a faster way to burn out from doing your podcast than by not outsourcing.

Deb Zahn: That's right. Well, and that's why most podcasts don't last past the seventh episode.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly. Exactly.

Deb Zahn: So you need to beat that stat. You need to get to number eight. And then you need to keep going. And if you've got help at the beginning, it'll be easier. So let me ask you my last question. So when you're not making the world of podcasting and business a better place, how do you find balance in your life, however it is you define that?

Noah Tetzner: I love that question, Deb. For me, this sounds so cheap, but it's so true, I love to learn about different things. So whether that is reading a book on content-based podcast networking, whether that's listening to other podcasts, or whether that's gaining inspiration through just like all of us as entrepreneurs, we're heroes on a journey trying to move from one objective to the next, so whether that's reading a novel about a different kind of hero. I love to learn and that's really helped me with my self-esteem, and that's helped me forget ahead through a lot of the different trials that come with running a business, is by reading and continuing to educate ourselves.

Even if what you're learning isn't exactly what you're looking for now, eventually you'll recall it in your mind and say, "Oh, I remember. I read an article about that." So whether that is...I mean, we're all very busy people, so I'm not saying you need to go out and buy 15 business books, but even if you say, "Every night, I am going to read one article on Medium before I go to bed about the topic that interests me. Or I'm going to watch one 10 minute YouTube video about what I'm trying to accomplish." I've found that's just helped me achieve a lot of balance because then I'm not having to reinvent the wheel. I can just sit down and it's like, for the most part, I can do my work that I know how to do.

Deb Zahn: I love that. I absolutely love it. And of course, podcasting, you can do the dishes while you're learning.

Noah Tetzner: Exactly.

Deb Zahn: That's wonderful. Well, Noah, it's been such a delight to have you on. I loved being on your podcast.

Noah Tetzner: Thank you.

Deb Zahn: So I appreciate you coming on to mine. And this has just been filled with gems. So one last, any last piece of advice you want to give to all the would-be podcasters out there?

Noah Tetzner: Absolutely. Well, Deb, thank you so much. The pleasure is all mine. And for those listening, I mean, thank you so much for listening today. And I just encourage you, whether you get in touch with someone like myself, or whether you continue listening to some of the interviews Deb's done on podcasting, just start your podcast. It doesn't have to be expensive. I promise you, you can do it for under $500, well under $500, if you want it that badly. Just commit to doing it. And the stories that I've shared and the stories that Deb shared about our podcasting success, we didn't just make them up for the sake of a good interview. These are things that we personally have experienced, and we're sharing that with you. So I would encourage you to just start.

Deb Zahn: Oh, I'd love that. Perfect. Thank you so much, Noah.

Noah Tetzner: Thank you, Deb.

Deb Zahn: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Craft of Consulting Podcast. I want to ask you to do actually three things. If you enjoyed this episode or if you've enjoyed any of my other ones, hit subscribe. I got a lot of other great guests that are coming up and a lot of other great content and I don't want you to miss anything. But the other two things that I'm going to ask you to do is, one is, if you have any comments, so if you have any suggestions or any kind of feedback that will help make this podcast more helpful to more listeners, please include those.

And then the last thing is, again, if you've gotten something out of this, share it, share it with somebody you know who's a consultant or thinking about being a consultant, and make sure that they also have access to all this great content and all the other great content that's going to be coming up.

So as always, you can go and get more wonderful information and tools at craftofconsulting.com. Thanks so much. I will talk to you on the next episode. Bye-bye