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Episode 135: Scaling Your Consulting Business without Sacrificing Your Life—with Gail Nott

Deb Zahn: Hi. I want to welcome you to this week's episode of the Craft of Consulting podcast. So in this episode, we're going to delve into how you can scale your consulting business and do it in such a way that you're not sacrificing your life in the process. And I have brought on Gail Nott. She is a coach and a consultant. She talks a whole lot about how to do this and what we get into are specific strategies and techniques that you can use to scale while keeping the life that you're ultimately trying to build. So let's get started.

Deb Zahn: Hi. I'd like to welcome my guest today, Gail Nott. Gail, welcome to the show.

Gail Nott: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Deb Zahn: So let's start off. Tell my listeners what you do.

Gail Nott: I am an online business coach supporting consultants and coaches who build their business online with group programs.

Deb Zahn: Love it. That was so perfect and succinct. You can tell. And it's...This is good for everybody to listen to, is you want to be that purposeful and succinct, so that was a beautiful modeling of good behavior. So Gail, what got you on that path? How did you end up doing that?

Gail Nott: Hmm. I was a consultant first. Actually, if I go back even further, I was actually a web programmer and I remember hating the marketing department back in the late nineties because they would think that building this website would save the company. I don't know if you remember those days.

Deb Zahn: Oh, yeah.

Gail Nott: But yeah. So I remember hating the consultant, and it's just funny that 15 years...15? Almost 20 years later, I became a social media consultant. But through that journey...When I left the programming world because I was a little burnt out during that dot com crash, I always saw myself as a consultant. Even when I became a massage therapist. I still felt like I was consulting my clients on how to better take care of their bodies and here's what you can do on your own and here's what I'm doing now, and this is why I'm doing this kind of massage and this kind of technique. I always felt myself as a consultant, even in the health field, and as I was building up this massage business, I started using social media because it was out there with Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn. I think those were the main platforms I used at that time. Again, teaching people how to use these platforms because they would see that I was using it and they would ask me, "Can you teach me how to do this as well?"

And came up with best practices just from trial and error on my own, learning, and consulting people that way. So it was social media consulting. And it wasn't until my husband and I worked with a business coach that I ever considered adding coaching to my practice as well because with coaching, it was...You were given permission to actually challenge your client a little bit.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: I think that was my frustration with marketing consulting, is that, again, they would think that this thing would just fix their business. And I didn't have the opportunity...Or maybe I just wasn't brave enough to question them. "Well, what about your sales practices? If we were to drive more traffic to your business, can you handle the sales?" Or, "What about your messaging?"

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: You know. Are we going to just put up stock photos online and call that your social media presence? So I think it was a combination of my confidence as a consultant as well as now having the skill set to work with my clients and really bring out the best from them. So I love adding the coaching element to it and that's what I consider myself first, is a coach, to help them come up with their goals and their processes and then it...When they want support and they want advice, I could put on my consulting hat and say, "OK, here. For this specific dilemma that you have, here's what I would recommend." And then, I could put my coaching hat back on and say, "How does that sound to you? Would that work for you?"

Deb Zahn: It's...You know, it is a great combination because most consultants I know end up having to do that anyway for exactly the reasons you described because this is not an instance where the client is always right, is they may think they need one thing. And in reality, it's not what they need. It's not going to get them to their goal or they haven't answered questions A, B and C first, and this is where being able to apply coaching skills is great. So I love that you combine them. That makes...And sort of organically toggle back and forth between the two. That makes perfect sense to me.

And I know today that we're going to talk about something that I really need to hear this week, so I'm so glad that this is our topic. How to scale your business without sacrificing your life. And those two things usually aren't in a sentence together and we're going to talk about how to make sure they're always in a sentence together. But let's start off. What does scaling mean? Because I know people will have different versions in their heads. But what's the version you like to work with?

Gail Nott: Oh, that is a great question. Now if I were your coach, I would say, "Well, what's your version?"

Deb Zahn: There you go. That's actually a great answer.

Gail Nott: Right? So I thought...Originally, I thought scaling my business meant building an agency.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: That's what you do to be successful, is you have an agency. You have multiple people. So I tried it out. I started a social media agency. I started hiring people, and we increased our business by doing social media management and social media consulting. And I didn't love it. I really didn't love it, and I thought...I honestly thought there was something wrong with me.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: Well, why don't I love this? Shouldn't I love having a team of people and being the boss? And what's wrong with me? Am I really a business owner? Am I really an entrepreneur if I don't like that? And it wasn't until I read the book called The Company of One.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: And the author is escaping me right now. But it was almost like this permission slip, like, no, you can have a lean business, you and your assistant or you and your bookkeeper or however you define your company. You can have a lean business. You could just be yourself and still scale it. So when I realized...I'm like, oh, I could do that.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: I can focus on what I love to do, outsource the rest. I don't even want to manage it anymore.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: Like I am now just referring it out, delegating it. Like I don't even want to be a manager. I started thinking about what do I want my life to be like.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: What do I want my life to feel like? I want my life to be easy and graceful and as stress-free as possible. This is all, of course, before I had a child. Just when I had my pets.

Deb Zahn: All right. That might have thrown it off a little bit.

Gail Nott: And it's still something I strive for. Not so easy with a two-year-old now, but it's...I do strive to have that calmness in my life. I'm like, that's enjoyable to me. That's...And you know, I want to go travel when I want to. Well, that's, you know, a little thrown off too. But generally speaking, is to have this easy life and that's...Once I knew what I wanted my life to feel like, then I started defining it. OK, what does that mean? OK, I'm going to work in these set hours. I'm going to put my business online. I'm only going to work with these kinds of clients and this kind of service. So that's what I always recommend for my clients to do, is to think about what you want your life to look like, what you want your business to look like, how you want to feel, and put in the pieces that way and then you're defining your own definition of success versus going with someone else's.

Deb Zahn: I love that, and I love starting there. So that's what I do, too, and I always give people the advice, start with what you want your day-to-day life to be like. Like describe the day that you want to have, knowing sometimes you won't have it because otherwise I think what happens is they say, "Business, business, business, business. Here's all the things." And then, it's almost like then they're looking for holes where they could fit their life as opposed to having your business serve your life.

So that's one of the reasons I wanted you on the show, is I follow you on social and it's great and I know you talk about these things and I think that's an important first step. What sort of traps do you see people fall into when they're...They are trying to scale and maybe they did that work ahead of time, maybe they didn't? What are the common traps?

Gail Nott: Probably the biggest one, especially for business owners, entrepreneurs, is we're driven to do this, to be on our own because we have this confidence that we can do it. And yet, that same level of confidence can hold us back in scaling because there's this feeling like, "Well, but they can't do it faster than I can." Or, "They can't do it as good as I can, so I should just go ahead and do it."

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: I actually have a question for you in a little bit about your social media because I'm doing my own social media for my account. For the company account, I was able to delegate that. But for my account, I'm doing it myself, and I'm not being consistent now. But I have that fear of like, well, how are they going to talk about me and my life? It's...You know, it's my account. So we can sometimes hold ourselves back in growing our business, either growing or scaling because of that fear of, well, they're not going to do it as well as I can.

Probably another fear could also be maybe even a fear of success. "Well, if I get too busy, how am I going to handle that? How am I going to have my life? How am I going to enjoy the things I want to enjoy? So I don't want too many clients." And that actually holds back people to even market their business. Kind of interesting.

Deb Zahn: Because all they see is busyness. You know, consultants...There's a rap that consulting has, which is you give your life away. You travel all the time. And your life's going to suck but you're going to make a bunch of money. I have no interest in any of that.

Gail Nott: Right.

Deb Zahn: And most folks don't know you can actually shape it. So you can find your sweet spot and then you'll have to find it again and then you'll have to find it again if things go wacky. But it's your choice.

Gail Nott: Yeah. It can be trial and error, but you could see it as a marketing campaign. You don't know if it's going to work until you test it out.

Deb Zahn: That's right. That's right.

Gail Nott: And you can A /B test it from there. So as you design your life, you start thinking about, “OK, how can I continue to...?” For me, it would be to increase my income, increase my revenue, and net income, what I'm actually paying myself. Oh, that's another trap, is when people think, well, I have to be a million-dollar agency or a million-dollar company.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: Or whatever number is out there that you feel like you have to achieve. And then, they spend...Maybe the gross revenue is a million dollars, but then they spent $950,000 or whatever that number is.

Deb Zahn: You might as well work at Burger King at that point.

Gail Nott: Yeah. Your assistant makes more money than you do. So that's another trap, is not being very aware and cognizant of the numbers.

Deb Zahn: Yeah, and not knowing the difference between gross and net, which is so critical. So what are some of the things that you suggest folks do then to scale on whatever their own terms are but to do it while still having the life they're trying to create?

Gail Nott: Hmm. That's a good question. But it's definitely a step-by-step process. So determine what life you're going to create and start putting into place those systems so that you can have that life. So for example, one of the steps I took was just having a three-day weekend. I want my weekends to be Friday through Sunday.

Deb Zahn: Yep.

Gail Nott: And eventually they're going to be Friday through Monday. But right now, they're Friday through Sunday. I don't want to do any work.

Deb Zahn: Love it. I did that.

Gail Nott: I don't even...I don't even want to open my computer. Yeah.

Deb Zahn: Yeah. It's magical. My husband did the math. He talked somebody else into it, too. He said, "So think of the proportion. Four days working; three days off. That's beautiful. That's a beautiful proportion." And I found it life changing.

Gail Nott: Yes. I did, too, and it's...Now that I have a daughter too, it gives me more focus time to be with her as well as time for myself. Monday through...Now, my routine is Monday through Thursday, so Thursday afternoon before the end of the workday, that's when I do my end-of-the-week routine. So just creating those routines and those systems so that you can start setting up that life.

Another thing to explore would be how can you increase your income without having to grow a big company if you don't want to. So so many different ways. You can look at adding different services. Maybe targeting a higher-end clientele. Bigger projects. It could even be on the other end where you have smaller products or smaller projects but you're working with a group of people at a time, which is what a lot of my clients like to do, is they're moving on from just one to one work to starting group type of coaching or training programs.

Deb Zahn: And it's that creativity that, if you ask yourself the question, if I want to work less but I want to maintain or increase my net revenue, then what are ways that I can do that. And I think what happens is that people default to, this is what a consultant is. We trade time for money and in order to make more money, we have to trade more of our time, and that...That's it. Like that's the version and if you...If that's your only version, then you're probably headed towards burnout or reduced revenue.

Gail Nott: Right. Right. I looked at what professional athletes do. There was that movie, Jerry Maguire, that kind of opened my eyes to how a lot of athletes, professional athletes, see their career as the...The sport is just to build their brand recognition and then they look at the business opportunities that they can bank on their reputation and their recognition and find out what...Where else can they invest their money? And I think that's really smart. We could do that as well as consultants, especially if you're a solo-preneur, is how can you brand yourself, and maybe it doesn't even have to be you. It could be your system or your program, the way that you consult, is to create a package around that, and what I love about that as well is now you're creating a legacy.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: Because when you decide you don't want to work anymore or when life has decided you're not going to work anymore, your work lives on through other people that you've trained or have purchased your product.

Deb Zahn: I love that. And I adore that you started with products because I don't think that a lot of consultants think about that as a viable option for generating revenue. So can you say a little more about what you think of some of the options. So that's one, is I do strategic planning and implementation like X and I have these frameworks and tools that I use that clients love and adore and get them those results, so now I'm going to package that and teach other people how to do it. Maybe license it. What are some other options for coming up with more product-type services?

Gail Nott: You can look and see if there was something you're using in your business that you wish was a little better. So something that's really popular for business coaches, business consultants, are planners. Surprisingly enough. I find that amazing because I love planners. I actually have my bullet journal right in front of me. I bullet journal because I don't like any of the planners that are pre-printed.

Deb Zahn: Nice.

Gail Nott: And so when you're doing something like that, that can be an opportunity of, “Oh, there's an opportunity there. There's a reason why I'm not purchasing something else, and I'm trying to make my own. It is because it doesn't fit my need and in my processes, I do things a certain way. So would that be an opportunity to create a product?” And then, once you have the product, you got to have the training for that product.

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Gail Nott: How do you use it? What's the most efficient and effective way to use that product? So that could be something to look at. Is there a tool that you're using in your industry, in your company, that you wish was just a little different?

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: And it's quite easy. Now that we are an international society with, most of us, access to the internet, is you can get things done and made, created for you, in very affordable and efficient ways.

Deb Zahn: Yeah. That look fancy pants. I mean, they really look high-end as opposed to when we had like, what? Dot-matrix printers or whatever version we had. I'm dating myself.

So one other thing I think is helpful is when you're doing your work with your clients, pay attention to something that might have value to another type of client or in the broader market and then ask yourself, is there a way to offer it effectively and efficiently so they still get the value but now it can be a product instead of them having face-to-face time with you or only face to face time with you.

Gail Nott: Right. That's another great way to scale, is if you find yourself saying the same foundational things to every client, that sounds like a possibility for some sort of online course or a video series, a book.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: There's so many possibilities there.

Deb Zahn: I had another podcast guest who...I didn't even know he was doing this, and I've known him for years, where there are certain compliance documents that certain types of health care providers have to have and they can't afford really expensive lawyer fees, so they sell a subscription service. And you can essentially download the latest version of whatever those compliance documents are and you enter the name of your organization and you're done. Brilliant idea. Subscription services, I think, are another way to think about it. Now I know that networking is one of the things that you talk a bit, a lot, about. Networking and referrals and things like that. How does that fit into scaling?

Gail Nott: Hmm. That's a great question. When I think about networking...How I learned with networking is that it's not the kind of networking where you're just shoving your business card in someone's face. And we're not networking in person anyways these days.

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Gail Nott: At least not so much.

Deb Zahn: And that's weird to do on Zoom, so you can't do it anyway.

Gail Nott: I know. Right. We're not pushing our services on someone that we're just meeting. Networking, how I believe in, is getting to know who this person is, what's important for them and for their clients, who do they help, what's their specialty. And just like connecting people. I just like helping people. So if I'm not the right person for them, who is? I have a very specific niche when it comes to business coaching. I don't coach or consult tech companies, manufacturing companies, retail. I do know people who do, so if I meet someone...Like I go to the local florist and they find out what I do. "Oh, can you help me?" I can help you to a point, and I would love to help you help find someone who really knows your industry and can consult with you to help you reach your goals. So that's one of the reasons I love coaching and knowing that if I'm out there connecting people, and I'm meeting people who are like me, who like to make those connections as well, it comes back to you naturally.

So if I'm the connector out there and I stay in touch with the people who I know are great at what they do, it'll come back to me naturally because I know they're doing the same thing for me. If they're not that type of person where they are that giving type of person, I'm probably not going to build a relationship with them in the first place.

Deb Zahn: Yeah. Yep.

Gail Nott: So it's OK. Yeah.

Deb Zahn: Yep. Gotta go, bye-bye.

But what I like about that is part of what helps you scale your business is reducing the amount of time it takes you to get business.

Gail Nott: Yes.

Deb Zahn: So I mean, talk about freeing you up. If all you're doing is out there chasing business all the time and then a portion of your time is getting paid to do it, you'll never be able to scale. And so having those referrals, which...You know that's where I get a lot of my business, is somebody will say, "Oh, everybody's arguing and they're mad at each other. We need to get Deb in here and help, help us get along." And then, we can come in and do our work. They just know that's who I am. That's what I do. And they call on me when they need to. That's work and income that I get that I don't have to go beat the bushes for.

I love that. Now I know one of the others...And you mentioned the social media thing at the beginning, that you aren't doing your social media, which, your social media is great, so I get why you're doing it. But outsourcing is another way to scale your business and I know for a lot of consultants it can be scary because you're increasing your expenses. But the question is, are you doing it smartly so you're freeing yourself up to do only the things that only you can do? So what does outsourcing look like for you? How do you make that work for you? Do you tell other people to get the right team around them?

Gail Nott: Right. When you're outsourcing or you're beginning to outsource, you want to look at the activities that need to get done but you're not very good at it.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: But they have to get done and if they're done well, it'll actually save you money. So bookkeeping is usually the first thing I recommend to business owners.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: Is to outsource. Get a great bookkeeper. Get a great tax accountant. And unless you happen to be a bookkeeper and accountant...If that's your business and you're great about doing your own bookkeeping accounting...Because we know a lot of cobblers that have no shoes.

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Gail Nott: So yeah.

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Gail Nott: So if you are doing your own work...You're a web developer and you have a great website, awesome. If you don't have a great website, outsource it.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: It may hurt the pride a little bit because you may think, "Well, I should know what to do." It's so challenging to do your own stuff sometimes because you're in it. You're emotionally involved. I have a background in marketing, but I have the hardest time writing my own copy and that's actually part of the reason why sometimes I find it challenging to do my own social media. But I hired a copywriter to write the copy for our landing page and website.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: It's not complete yet, but it will be. But I did enough on my own to just get something out there and sometimes that's what you have to do when you're just starting. And when you can, when you can afford it, when it's a good investment, is hire an expert to do that.

Deb Zahn: Yeah. I did that recently. So I'm a really good writer, but I'm not a copywriter. And there's a difference, and I had to humbly embrace that what I wrote wasn't working. So am I going to spend some extra money to get somebody who wakes up every day and thinks about copywriting? Yes. That makes perfect sense because she's better than I am.

Gail Nott: Now I have a question for you, if you don't mind me asking about your social media.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: I love your social media because it's a combination of business as well as an insight into your personal life. I do believe when we're hiring a person, you kind of want to feel, like, do I like this person?

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: Do I want to work with this person? And I want to share that in my social media, too. However, I haven't been outsourcing that part and now I haven't been posting regularly. It's actually been, I think, a week. Sometimes I only post once a week and it...There's a lot of thought behind that.

Deb Zahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Gail Nott: I was wondering. How do you mix your social media with the business and the personal? And how much does your team actually do versus what you do?

Deb Zahn: Yeah. So that's been a bit of trial and error. When I did social media before I had this business, it was vegetables and cats and occasionally my husband. So like, that was pretty much what I posted and only occasionally. And then political things as well. But I've tried different versions. So I tried the total-outsourced version, which I was not pleased with because no one could find my voice. My voice is very particular, you know? I'm a West Coast-East Coast transplant who's a sassy, feisty gal but also is X, Y, and Z. It's hard to replicate that. And I know there are people who can, but I had not been able to find that.

So what I've evolved to is a hybrid model. So when it comes to some of my personal posts...So I just posted something that was, "I'm really tired, and I have to take a nap today." That was 100% me. My social people didn't know I was going to do it. They're like, "Maybe brush your hair next time." And I'm like, "No. It was on-brand for the video." So anything that's really personal like that is 100% me.

Most of the copy and the content comes from me, but what I've done to lighten my load is, one, I have systems. So you mentioned systems, which made my heart sing. I use Asana. We have everything mapped out there. I do planning for social media ahead of time. I have an Excel tool that I created. I usually plan it well in advance. I hope to do it even more in advance. We have daily themes. We have monthly themes. We have weekly themes, and we have daily themes. So now I don't have to think, "Oh, gee. What am I going to do this week?" So I've systematized it. The project management is all in Asana, so the handoffs are super easy.

And then I have them put in information that only they can do. So I have somebody that does my graphics. I have somebody, when I do a podcast audiogram, they'll go look at the transcript, they'll pull out a couple of options for me, and I'll pick the one I want. That saves me time. But I want to write the copy about it…because I want to honor my guests. I want to honor the connection we had. But I want them to put in what's the person's name, what's the company they're from, and all of the things that I'm really bad at remembering. So what I keep doing is experimenting with what pieces can I have other folks do that don't require me.

That they can just put that all in there. They've got the picture. I've got someone doing the graphics. I've got someone who's doing X, Y and Z. I show up, and I do what only I can do, which is to write the copy that is what I think is truly the most valuable or helpful or the thing I want to say. And overall, plan the content, but that's it.

And then they schedule it. I even have them now monitoring comments because, you know, I'm not always paying attention, and they're like, "Deb, you got to get on them." I'm like, "OK, then. Make me get on it." And I'm willing to pay for those things because it makes my life easier. And then that frees me up to do the things that they couldn't possibly do.

Gail Nott: Right.

Deb Zahn: Like talk to prospective clients. Does that make sense?

Gail Nott: Oh, definitely.

Deb Zahn: I finally got somewhere. I'd love it if someone...I could pay someone who knew my voice, but I haven't found that yet.

Gail Nott: Right. Yeah. I think that's where I'm going to go as well, is...I do have a company account and they do all of that. But I feel like, you know, all that great content is going to an account that only has 80 followers.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: Where the account under my name has a bigger reach, and I think I'm missing out on opportunities by not outsourcing and delegating. And not just this outsourcing delegation but actually managing the content.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: So that it is under my brand, and I'm thinking maybe I even have them post at a certain time and then that way I know if I want to make a funny post about me, you know, with just waking up or having my cocktail in the evening. That's my time.

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Gail Nott: I can post my crazy stuff at that time.

Deb Zahn: Yeah. I can look on Hootsuite. I can see when things are going out. So I'm not competing with myself.

But, you know, for me, with social media, as it is true with any marketing or any outreach, I'm also about forming real relationships. If I outsource the whole thing just to reduce the burden on me, you do lose a little something. And it's not something that I really truly want to lose because I've been consulting for over 11 years. I've coached many, many people on how to be consultants and solve problems. I want to make sure that everything I say is actually valuable to people or shows a side of myself that lets them know, oh yeah. I'm an actual, real, silly, goofy human being who you can talk to and I won't judge you. I felt like I didn't want to lose that piece of it. And it's the same way when I've seen consultants hire salespeople or try and outsource sales, which I kind of get, but I'm also have found that clients want real relationships.

Gail Nott: Right.

Deb Zahn: And so if they're just being sold to by someone, they could go to the big companies for that. They want something special when they're going to a solo person or a small firm.

Gail Nott: Mm-hmm. I agree.

Deb Zahn: Yeah, so good luck. I mean, I love your social media when you put it up and I think you're right. I can tell it's you and I'm like, "Oh yeah. She's cool. I want to hang out with her."

So where can folks find you, now that you're going to post all the time?

Gail Nott: I...Yeah. I know. I'm going to be posting daily pretty soon here. And I do check my messages. I am actually most active on Instagram, so you can find me at Gail Knott on Instagram. You can find me on Gail Nott on all of the socials. LinkedIn, Twitter. On Facebook, it's Coach Gail Nott.

Deb Zahn: That's wonderful. And so you know I got to ask the last question because we've been talking about not sacrificing your life.

Gail Nott: Mm-hmm.

Deb Zahn: So how do you, with a two-year-old, bless your heart, find balance however it is you define that?

Gail Nott: Ooh. Balance. Balance is such a...It's such a scary word.

Deb Zahn: Yeah.

Gail Nott: It almost feels like it has to be perfect, and so for balance for me...Balance for me means I feel well-rested.

Deb Zahn: Nice.

Gail Nott: I feel well-nourished and I feel...I feel content. So to me, that's balance. How my day goes...Sometimes, you just kind of have to throw out your hair. Your hair. Yeah. Maybe you can throw your hair up as well. But maybe throw your hands up in the air and be like, "You know, that was today."

Deb Zahn: That's right.

Gail Nott: I did my best. I did my best. My daughter's alive and well.

Deb Zahn: Score. Yeah.

Gail Nott: Yeah. Exactly. Today is a good day. I get to hug her for another day, so that's a good day. So that's where I feel balance, is kind of just appreciating the little moments, appreciating what I can do for my clients, and leave everything else to where it falls. But keep moving forward.

Deb Zahn: You know, I love that. I've said to my husband before. He's like, "How was your day?" And I said, "I had a vegetable, so that...that is the height."

Gail Nott: That is a win.

Deb Zahn: That's that...

Gail Nott: Yeah.

Deb Zahn: That was my big win today, is I had a really good hearty vegetable and as for the rest, let's just move past that.

Gail Nott: Yeah.

Deb Zahn: Well this is wonderful and I know you also have a show that people can also tune in to.

Gail Nott: I do.

Deb Zahn: Say a little bit more about that because I tuned in to one and I loved it.

Gail Nott: It can get a little crazy. So it's The Bourbon and Business Podcast with Gail and Cory Nott. I'm in business with my husband and something we love to enjoy in the evenings, not so much anymore...We kind of save it for the podcast. But we drink a bourbon cocktail every show. If you want to watch the live craziness, watch it on Facebook because I don't edit it on Facebook. The podcast is a little more edited. You can catch it anywhere you subscribe to podcasts. But we have a little cocktail and just talk about what it's like to be a small business owner, to be a coach and consultant.

Deb Zahn: I love it. And do the unedited one. That's the one I joined in. I was like, "This is fun."

Gail Nott: It's...It gets crazy because my husband likes to make really strong cocktails and I'm much smaller than he is, so by the end of the episode, I am...Yeah. I am...It...It.. Oh, it's The Bourbon and Business Smash.

Deb Zahn: Oh, smash. That's right.

Gail Nott: Which is a type of cocktail. That's right. It's a type of cocktail. But I am literally smashed at the end of the live episodes.

Deb Zahn: So stay on till the end because that's when the stuff gets really good.

Gail Nott: Yes. That's when it gets really real.

Deb Zahn: Well, Gail, I'm so appreciative that you came on the podcast. I've been following you for a while, been wanting to get on just to even to have a chance to talk to you, so I really appreciate you coming on.

Gail Nott: Thank you. I loved it. Thank you for having me.

Deb Zahn: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Craft of Consulting Podcast. I want to ask you to do actually three things. If you enjoyed this episode or if you've enjoyed any of my other ones, hit subscribe. I got a lot of other great guests that are coming up and a lot of other great content and I don't want you to miss anything. But the other two things that I'm going to ask you to do is, one is, if you have any comments, so if you have any suggestions or any kind of feedback that will help make this podcast more helpful to more listeners, please include those.

And then the last thing is, again, if you've gotten something out of this, share it, share it with somebody you know who's a consultant or thinking about being a consultant, and make sure that they also have access to all this great content and all the other great content that's going to be coming up.

So as always, you can go and get more wonderful information and tools at Thanks so much. I will talk to you on the next episode. Bye-bye.

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