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Listening Time:

40 min

Episode 186: Achieving Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Outcomes—with Lily Zheng

We can't train your way to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI), or unroot systemic issues through surveys, lunch-and-learns, and other inputs. On this week’s Craft of Consulting Podcast, I Interview Lily Zheng, DEI author, consultant, and strategist, who shares how to approach the work differently so companies and organizations can achieve actual outcomes from DEI work. They also share ways that all consultants—regardless of what we do—can contribute to those outcomes.

Lily gives us a sneak peek into their new book, DEI Deconstructed: Your No-Nonsense Guide to Doing the Work and Doing it Right.


Lily Zheng

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Episode Details

Lily Zheng emphasizes outcomes over inputs for DEI work with clients. In this episode, we talk about:

  • Releasing their new book DEI Deconstructed: Your No-Nonsense Guide to Doing the Work and Doing It Right

  • Making excuses for not engaging in or pulling back on DEI

  • Understanding the problem with the “business case” for DEI

  • Getting organizations aligned on what their journey might look like

  • Knowing what organizations need by knowing about the organization

  • Helping organizations understand exactly what complex challenges they face as an organization

  • Getting curious and take personal responsibility for some aspect of DEI work because it touches every thing consultants do

  • Taking a peek into chapter 3 of DEI Deconstructed

For more information about Lily Zheng:


DEI Deconstructed book:

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