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Episode 168: Eliminating Friction to Get More Consulting Business—with Deb Zahn

Deborah Zahn: I want to welcome you to this week's episode of the Craft of Consulting Podcast. So on this podcast, I'm going to talk about something you can do that actually makes it more likely that clients are going to follow through all the way to giving you a contract and starting to do work with you. And it's really about removing barriers that make it difficult or less likely that they're actually going to follow through and do all the things that you want them to do that result in you getting business.

And so we're going to talk about friction. And friction essentially is anything that prevents or dissuades the folks that you want to work with from buying your services or if you offer products, buying your products. And here's the deal is if you haven't actually gone into your business and deliberately looked for friction that you could potentially get rid of or you could reduce, chances are it's going to be there. And if it's there, then there are going to be times that it's going to cost you business.

There's going to be times that you're going to lose business because you had too many steps or you made it too difficult for them to ultimately get to the point of where you've got a contract and they're actually working with you. So we're going to talk about how to get rid of those. You can think of them as unforced errors to use one of the very few sports analogies I can actually use, and we're going to get rid of those unforced errors.

But before I dive in, I do want to share one thing with you, which is there are some other absolute essentials to be able to get clients and to get them more easily and to get them more quickly. I'm going to be giving a free live masterclass on the Top 5 Things You Must Do to Get Consulting Clients. And it's July 14th at 11:00 AM Pacific Time, 2:00 PM Eastern Time. And when you register, you're also going to get a free tool and that tool is going to let you define very, very precisely what your unique value proposition is, which is the thing that you're going to go out into your market and talk about to be able to get business.

So definitely join me for that. If you happen to be hearing this podcast after that date, don't worry, I'll be doing them again. And we'll be doing some other cool things coming up that are about other topics like pricing and whatnot. So you can learn more about how to do that, but let's get back to friction. So again, I want to repeat the definition because I think it's so critical. It's anything that prevents or dissuades who you want to work with, your potential clients from buying your services or your products.

And the thing that I want to say before I get into some of the details of this is that you have to understand when you're trying to get clients, it's not a single yes. Like a lot of us when we go in and we're trying to get clients, we think it's that one yes of, "Yes, I want to work with you. Get me a proposal. Or yes, I want to work with you. Get me a contract," but that's just one of the yeses that you ultimately have to get.

What it really is it's a series of yeses. It's a series of actions you need them to take to get from wherever it is you're starting with a prospective client all the way through that signed contract and ultimately all the way to you actually starting to do the work for them that they've contracted with you to do. So think about in that whole process the yeses that you need to get. So they need to say, "Yes, I actually want to engage with you. Yes, I do want to have a meeting with you and to talk about what it is that we care about and what you might be able to do for us. Yes, maybe we need another meeting in order to really think through how we might work together. Yes, I would like a proposal."

You send a proposal and then, "Yes, I would like changes to that proposal. Yes, I would like a contract. Yes, I want changes to that contract." And don't forget this one is just because you have a signed contract doesn't actually mean the work's going to move forward. So the final yes is, "Yes, I want to start working with you" and then you want them to keep wanting to work with you. So those are the whole series of yeses that you have to think through. And it's helpful if you think about those because, by the way, those are all places where friction can show up and make it more difficult for you to get that yes.

But the idea is to recognize that to accumulate those yeses, that you need to manage the process and not leave it to chance. And one of the key ways of managing that process is to make sure that you're not putting anything in the way that prevents or dissuades them from actually giving you the business that you should be getting from them. So let's talk about what friction looks like and how it pops up in some of those different places where you need yeses.

So, for example, one is it could be that you're not being clear about what you actually want them to do. So what that action is that you want them to take that's going to move you further towards getting a contract and working with them. And often what I see happen is that folks aren't clear about this is the thing I want you to do. And so you leave it to them to try and figure it out, which the reality is most of them won't do.

So perfect example is if you have a website for your consulting business, and you don't make it clear that the step you really want them to take is to schedule a call with you. Your call to action could actually be something different, but in most cases you actually want to get on a discovery call with them. If you don't make it obvious that that's what you want them to do next, they may not actually do it.

If you don't make it easy for them to do it, and instead you expect them to search your site and figure out how they're going to schedule a call with you, they might not actually do it or they might try and hunt around, not find it, and then they give up, and they move on. So this is where if you have a website, you want to make it easy and you want to make it obvious that this is the thing that I want you to do, and this is the next step that you're going to take so that ultimately we can get in a conversation. We can talk about all the goodness that I can bring to you.

It could be that you're asking them to take extra steps. A perfect example of that is you send them a proposal. Now a proposal is an important yes because a proposal actually gets you to a contract, or in my case, my proposal is a contract. So that's really important to make sure I ultimately get that yes. But if they have to see it in their email, print it out, sign it, scan it, and then email it back to you like I'm exhausted just listing all of those steps. Those are a lot of different steps that you're asking someone to take and the reality is they may not.

They might say, "Oh, you know, I don't want to have to deal. My scanner hasn't been working or it's a lot of work to do it. It always misses pages." Or it's just, "You know what? I'll do that later because it's nothing I can do right now." That could cause you not to actually get assigned a contract simply because you've asked them to do too much work, to be able to get it back to you so that you can actually take the next step with them. And what's interesting about this is, yeah, there's lots of consultants out there that aren't doing this yet. And they're still making clients take those steps, and they think having a PDF is enough.

But one thing that my wonderful guest Jon Picoult pointed out in Episode 165 is that you must understand that they're not just comparing you to other consultants, that people are now comparing their experiences across industries. So if they're engaging with other industries, so let's even say it's not even a consultant. They're engaging with other industries, and they're used to signing documents electronically, which makes it super easy for them to do that. And I love those where electronically it pops up and then it has a little thing that says sign here, and I know exactly when I've done everything I'm supposed to do. I click a button and boom. I'm done.

I do that with other things. When I bought my solar panels, that's what I did. And so I expect, because I now know that's possible, I expect to see that in any type of interaction that requires me to sign something. So they're going to compare you to their experiences in other industries, which means you want to be the consultant who is actually keeping pace with what's possible and what ultimately makes it easier for them to do it. So the reality is most people at this point expect to be able to get documents that they can sign electronically.

What I've heard from my clients is they really like it and they like it because it involves far fewer steps. And if I add more steps, I've just made their life harder and it might feel like, "Oh, well, that's no big deal," but it's only no big deal if they have nothing else going on in their life, which is rarely true with anyone we're trying to get business from, which is often one of the reasons they need our help.

So if they're in this super busy day and trying to get a whole bunch of things done and juggling and trying to pretend that multitasking is a good idea, then they're going to be less likely to take those multiple steps to ultimately get a contract back to you. And so you don't want to lose that yes. And in order not to lose that yes, that's the right way to say that, then you want to make it as easy as possible and you want to reduce the number of steps only to those that are absolutely essential.

So the other thing that I want to point out, so those are a couple of examples of kind of how it often pops up in different places. But here's the thing is if you've got friction in one place, so if you've got it with your proposals, chances are it's in other places because if you've got it in one place, particularly if it's obvious, then chances are you actually haven't stopped and figured out, "Hey, wait a minute. What's this experience look like, and do I have friction?" So it's going to show up in multiple places.

And on the other side for the prospective client or for your client, it's then cumulative. And so you're now creating a whole bunch of opportunities for them not to take the next step or to delay the next step, which can be just as frustrating, which is you're trying to get to do the good work that you want to do and you need cash flow. You need that income coming in but it's delayed. And often it can be delayed because we've actually made it difficult for them to do the next thing. So it might not even be that you lose business. It could be that you're actually delaying business.

So everything you do, you want to think about what the experience is on the other side and how to make it as easy, as seamless as possible for you to start to accumulate those yeses. And everything you do creates an experience. So it's not just when you're working with them. It's from any moment that you actually engage with them, or they have a desire to engage with you, and they have to take a step to do that. And as I've said many, many times, every time they have an experience with you, you are showing them what it's like to work with you.

So if you send them something and it takes them four or five steps to complete it and they know that they don't have to do that at other places, which you're essentially communicating to them and I'll use the proposal example is that you're 1. Not really up on technology. And that doesn't look good as a consultant of any kind, but the other is that it's going to take some work to work with you because things aren't really easy and they aren't focused and centered on the client, which is what you ultimately want it to be.

And you are signaling those things to them, whether you intend to or not. And what ultimately you truly want to be able to signal is you want to be able to signal to prospective clients that the experience with you is going to be all value and no fuss. So if you were going to have a T-shirt, that's what the T-shirt would say, all value and no fuss. And you want them to say that instead of think, "Ugh, OK, well, hopefully they're worth it." You don't want to go there. You don't want to have them say that. So you want to think through all of the ways you can either get rid of or minimize any friction. Let's hit what some of those are now.

So first of all, the overall thing you're trying to do is you're trying to create processes that you've developed that make it easy-peasy for prospective clients or for existing clients to do whatever it is that you need them to do. So whatever it is that next step is, that next thing is that you need them to do to progress down to the point where you've got a contract and you're working with them.

So you need to be clear about what you want them to do. To use the example earlier, if you've got a website, they don't know that the next thing is to schedule with you because you didn't make that clear or you said schedule with me, but you didn't make it easy for them to do that. That's a perfect place to start is you always want to have a really clear call to action, not five calls to action, not even two calls to action, but a clear call to action that says, "Here, do this thing now." That is a great gift that you can give to them as you all don't have to figure this out. I figured it out for you. Here's the thing you need to do next and you don't need to worry about anything else.

And then you make it super easy to do that. So again, using the website example, you want to have buttons that they can push that say “schedule a call.” Bright, bold colors. It should jump off the page. It should be at the top of your website so it's one of the first things they see. And then you should have at least one other button that does the same exact thing and says the same exact thing above the fold. And above the fold on a website, similar to a newspaper, basically means when they open the website that's what they see without having to do any scrolling.

And then you want it throughout your website. So, for example, if you send them to a page where they get to look at testimonials or you send them to a page and it's where your blogs are, or your podcast guest experience, whatever. You also want to make sure on that page that there is at least one if not more places that they can click on and schedule with you because now you've made it super clear that's the thing I want you to do. That's the thing I want you to do. And all you have to do is click here to do it.

And by the way, when they click there to do it, you also want to make wherever they go next to also be really easy. So I've seen on websites and I hate them, I'm just going to be honest, I don't like them is the contact forms where you have to fill out your first and your last names. I've had ones ask me for my address, I'm not sure why, my phone number. And then they want me to fill something out and it's a long and involved process.

It also can feel somewhat intrusive. And so that alone is going to be a little friction as they might feel like, "Why am I giving them all this information? All I want to do is have a conversation." So you want to think through what's the easiest way to do it. I think the easiest way to do it is to be able to click on it, they go to your electronic scheduling system and they can book immediately a time that works for them.

And then presumably if you've got your customer relationship management system set up, then immediately after that they get an email confirming the meeting and providing them with whatever other information's going to be helpful for them to prepare. But that's where you create a friction-free environment that is going to get you on a call with somebody. And for most consultants, that's where the magic happens. That's where you get to listen to what they care about. You get to ask questions, get a deeper understanding of what they care about and what they have a true market demand for, meaning something they need that they're willing to pay for.

And it's where you get an opportunity to show them if it is a fit, why you are the best person to work with. So you want to make getting to that super, super easy. And so part of what you have to do in order to eliminate friction is you need to map out all of the steps that you're asking prospective clients to take everything from the moment that you're doing something so that they become aware of you, all the way through signing the contract, all the way through I would say onboarding them as a client and starting the work.

And so the bulk of that is what's called a sales funnel and don't worry too much. I know it's a real jargon-y term, but essentially what a sales funnel is, is it’s essentially that step-by-step process of what you're asking a client to do to ultimately be able to work with you. And don't worry about the metaphor, but it's basically called a funnel because there's all these people that are going to become aware of you, but not all of them are going to be clients so it gets a little narrower at each step.

But I'm going to talk about it because it's so important to understand where to look for friction and where to get rid of friction, but I'm not going to make it too complex. So if you're not familiar with it, this is a general overview. It definitely can get way more fancy pants than that, but essentially just think of it as the journey that you want a person to take that you ultimately want to work with. And I will say this, sales funnels are essential no matter what because it guides all kinds of decisions that you're going to make and things that you're going to do to ultimately get business.

So I always encourage folks to have those, but they are especially really helpful to map out, take a step back, look at them to examine what the experience is like from the perspective of the client, and then eliminate or reduce any friction. So that's why I'm going to get into it, but it essentially works like this. So first, you have to decide who you ultimately want to do work with.

So this is work I've talked about before and I'm sure you've seen other places of knowing who your ideal client or your avatar is. And the reason that's important to start with is that all the steps that are going to be in your sales funnel are going to be what that potential buyer actually cares about and will likely do. So if you don't have that clarity at the front end, it's going to be really hard to figure out what the steps are because if they end up being too generic, then you're just kind of hoping people will do them as opposed to if I have great clarity about who ultimately I think my buyer is, what they care about and what's valuable to them and what they're willing to do.

Now, I can construct a series of steps that are going to lead them down a path that they're actually going to want to take. So that's where starting with the who is always so important. So this is where you want to know a lot about them actually is you want to think about, "OK, what market are they in or are they a cross market?" So it could be that you're going after HR directors and the industry doesn't matter. Or like me, it could be healthcare and then it's a specific niche or niches within the healthcare market.

But you want to know sort of where do they work? Are they at an organization? Are they at a company? What does that look like? And definitely you want to know what their position is because they all care about different things. So if I know that in my instance, it tends to be CEOs, then I have to be really clear about that. My who is a CEO. If yours is a chief financial officer or a marketing lead, whatever it is, you got to know what their position is because they're ultimately going to care about different things and be willing to go down a different path.

You also have to know what they care about, what their problems are. What's really stressing them out? What's worrying them? What aspirations do they have? And the more you sort of get to know what that is, then the steps that you lay out afterwards get a little bit easier. So the next question that you ask is then, "OK, how are they going to become aware of me?" How are they going to become aware of you and know you enough that now they're willing to do something? And once we start asking people to do things, that's where the friction, we got to pay attention to that.

So are they going to see your posts on LinkedIn because you know who they are you know that LinkedIn is where they actually show up? So you're going to do some social media posts and that's where they're going to become aware of you. Are they going to hear about you from a peer or somebody that you asked to introduce you or recommend you? Or are they going to see you at a conference and you're just going to knock their socks off with some wonderful presentation you did? And at the end, you had this really clear call to action where they knew what the next step in actually connecting with you is.

So you got to know like how does that happen and what is it that ultimately I'm going to do that will enable them to actually become aware of me, and get to know me? Kick the tires a little bit and get to know who I am, and how I think about things. And then you want to say, "All right, so how are they going to start to then like you and start to want to engage with you?" So are they going to see that on the social media platform that you know they're on and you're engaging with that you're actually going to be responding to some of their posts.

And they're going to see your comments on other things that they care about in forums. Will they get an email from you or a series of emails? Like what is that next step that you think's going to get you now to the next step, which is to ultimately get on a call where you're going to figure out if it makes sense to work together? How will they start to trust you? And now they're going to consider working with you and they want to connect with you to do that.

So are they going to get an email from you? And they can click on a link or they're on social media and they can click on something, and that takes them to this website page or a landing page where maybe you're giving away something for free that's super valuable. Some insights or a tool or something that actually helps them get some type of a result that they care about, something that gives them Intel that helps them make decisions, things like that, but they're going to give you their email in exchange for that.

You have to know that next step that you want them to take. Will you be offering, for example, a webinar or something, a type of training that provides really valuable information to them? And then at the end of it, you're going to present an offer, something that is ultimately what you're trying to sell to them, which you have to be very clear about. So you want to think through that step to get to the point where they actually want to connect with you or you're going to connect with them.

And so this is the question of, "OK, are they going to get an email from you?" Will they get an email from a peer who's actually introducing you? Are you asking them to click on something on your website to schedule a time to meet? You want to think through every one of those steps, recognizing that you might want to actually have a few different steps that they can choose from. So maybe they do get an email from a peer that's introducing you, but they also if the person introduces you and they want to kick the tires a little bit, they might go to your website. They might go to LinkedIn in which case you want them to be able to connect with you directly from there.

So you want to think through all of that and then think through how did they get the proposal? How did they get the contract? How do we start working with them? All those details if you map that out and it doesn't have to be perfect and it doesn't have to be fancy. Like I have a sales funnel that tends to be a little on the fancier side, but there's easier ways to do that. The most important way to think about it is that you're doing it from a client perspective. What am I asking them to do so that ultimately, I'm going to be able to work with them? And you think about it step by step.

So first they do this and then they do this and then dot, dot, dot, all the way to I have a contract and I'm going to start working with them. Now there are programs that you can use that actually can make this easier. I use a program called Guru, which lets me get kind of fancy pants about it, which I really like. And it helps me really visualize all of the details that go into it. So that's more of a sophisticated sales funnel mapping system.

But truthfully for folks on my membership, we've been using Jamboard or you can even use PowerPoint, or something similar that actually lets you map out the steps. And on Jamboard, we basically take the sticky notes, which essentially look like Post-It notes and we can just kind of map out the steps, and that can be really helpful. It doesn't have to be super fancy when you first start off. It just has to be clear enough so that you know what you're asking folks to do. And then for this exercise so that you can actually look at the friction and see if there's anything that you need to get rid of.

The first time I did it…so I start by using Jamboard before I get in and use anything else. But when I did my first sales funnel, I actually did it with real live Post-it notes on a mirror and I just mapped. And I tried color-coding and that got really messy, but I did it sort of hands-on kind of way and you can do that too. But you just want to get a sense of what's actually happening step by step because otherwise you're not going to be able to see what the real soup to nuts customer experience is ultimately going to be.

Now a sales funnel mapping system is really good because then you can get really detailed so you know, "OK, if they're going to click here, they're going to go to a landing page, they download this and then from here they go there." But to start with just I would say keep it super simple if you don't already have one. Because the goal is to do it, not to be overwhelmed and then not do it. Again, when I show folks in my membership and we've played around with developing sales funnels for people in there, we use Jamboards or they use something similar and it works great. They post it, they get feedback, they play around with it. So the idea is to start simple and usually that's enough to do.

So once you map it out, you then for the purpose of this, now you're going to use it for other things. But for the purpose of this is then you want to look at every single step. So everything that you said you want them to do and you want to ask is, "What can I do to make either every step easier so that it's more likely I'm going to get a yes, yes and then yes each step of the way or is there anything I can just plain old get rid of because I don't know why I have that step in there?"

Like there might be steps that you have in there that you like. So, for example, there might be certain steps where you have, aside from trying to sell things, you're also trying to collect people's emails. And so you put a step in there that prioritizes that. But if really your sales funnel is to get sales, then you might skip that step. You might decide you're going to use that somewhere else, but in this particular process you're not going to do it. Because what you really want them to do is you really want them to get on a call with you and then guess what? You're going to get their email because they're going to ask you for a proposal or you're going to get it when they schedule with you because they're going to be emailed a reminder about that scheduling.

So you want to think about anything you can do to make it easier from the perspective of the client. And you also want to think through, then anything that you could potentially get rid of. So, for example, if one of the things that you have on there is something that could easily be switched to an easy, automated way for people to do things. So like I said, you've heard I don't like the contact forms on websites that make me fill out multiple things. I just don't like it and I generally will not do it. And I think that's true of a lot of people.

So you change it to a simple button they click, but you have to at the back end have that electronic scheduling system, which was probably one of the smartest things I did when I went independent as a consultant and I've heard great feedback about it, but you actually have to have that in place. So that's the other thing that's helpful about doing the sales funnel is it tells you, "Wait a minute, what systems do I have to have in place? What forms do I have to have? What landing pages?" Sort of all of the things that will actually make those steps possible. It actually will help you clarify what those things actually are.

And the beauty of things like that is that if someone emails you asking to meet with you and that's really what they want to do, you want to be able to give them a simple link to be able to do it. That is the most friction-free way to do it. And what you end up avoiding is that horrible back-and-forth emailing that everyone hates. Like that's the friction we all hate and so we know it. Start there, get rid of that, get your electronics scheduling system and get rid of that, and then they just get a link to schedule.

If, for example, you are asking someone to refer you. So you're saying, "Look, I'm hoping to get business. Here's the type of work I want to do. Can you please refer me and send an email out to your contacts?" And a lot of times what people do is they just do that and then they hope that the person is actually going to do it. But the problem is if that's all you ask them to do, you've created friction. So if somewhere on your sales funnel it actually says you're going to reach out and ask contacts that you have to refer you to other folks, and that's a step. And then you want them to take the next step, which is to actually do it, then you need to make it as easy as possible for them to actually do that.

And I've said this before; I actually have a template on my website for doing it, which is you write the email for them. Don't make them write an email. Don't make them put in your scheduling link. Don't make them do anything. What they really should have to do is say, "All right, I'm going to send it to these folks" because you were crystal clear, and you told them, "This is who I want you to introduce me to, or here are the types of people I want you to introduce me to."

So if you know you're going to be working with CEOs, make sure they know that. If you're going to be working with a different position or different organizations or companies, you give them crystal clarity about who do you want them to send this to. You write the email for them so really all they have to do is forward it. Maybe they'll personalize it, maybe they won't, but you've done all the heavy lifting. And if you've done all the hefty lifting, that means that you've reduced significant friction that would get in the way of them actually taking the follow-up step you want them to take.

And then, by the way, the email that you're asking them to forward also makes it super easy for the folks that they connect with to ultimately connect with you. And you think through those steps and you make it as easy as possible with as few steps as possible.

Another example is if you're trying to collect someone's email so that you can engage with them, which is a really great way to build relationships over time and ultimately get business. I have seen ones that have, again, mirror a contact form and they ask me for a whole bunch of information. A lower friction way to do it is ask for a first name and an email, maybe a first and last name and an email and not necessarily ask for all of this other information because it's going to be more likely that they're ultimately going to do it.

So the other thing I would say and I mentioned earlier when I gave the proposal example, and this is true of contracts is can you switch to an electronic system for sending and signing contracts or bake that into your customer relationship management system? Stop making people print and scan things, I guess it's the short way I would say that. That's a no-brainer. I would say any consultant that's operating today should absolutely get something like that set up.

And there's a whole sign request, DocuSign will do it. And then, of course, most customer relationship management systems will do it. And a lot of the financial management systems will do it as well. That's a no-brainer of something you can do to get rid of friction. So if in your sales funnel you're really clear that and here's the part where you're going to send the proposal, here's the part where you're going to send the contract. This is where you essentially automate it and make it electronic to remove any friction.

And anything like that is what creates easy, seamless experience for the clients that you ultimately want to have. And again, it signals to them what it's going to be like to work with you. So you want it to be fabulous and friction-free. I guess that would be the other T-shirt, fabulous and friction-free. So that's ultimately what you want to do and of course, it doesn't stop there. So when you start working with them, you want it to be the same way.

So, for example, this is why with a lot of my clients, I'm switching to using a shared project management system so that they don't have to say, "Oh, I thought I had the latest work plan. Oh, I didn't? Oh, it's been updated two other times?" Like that's not friction-free. So you want to make sure that everything's really clear, that there's ways that you're able to work together that just feels easy to them. In a sense what you want it to do from the moment they become aware of you, all the way through any engagement you do with them is that they're thinking, "This is one of the easiest interactions that I've had among all of the other interactions I've had that generally don't feel good or just are a pain."

So that's ultimately how you want to think about it and approach it. And I've given some examples of things to do here, but the most important thing is for you to map out your process so you see exactly what the process is, you get everything set up on the back end that supports it. Then you're also going to know what to go do, but once you start doing it and once you start bringing people into that journey ultimately with the goal of converting them to clients and doing great work for them, that you know that experience is going to be the one you want them to have. And that you're going to get yes after yes after yes after yes, which is ultimately the goal because then not only do you get to do the work you love, but you also get to have the life that you want to have.

So that's what I would say about friction. It's definitely one of those essential things to pay attention to when you're trying to build your business. And when you're trying to get clients.

And again, I want to remind you if you have not signed up for it already, don't forget to sign up for my free live masterclass Top 5 Things You Must Do to Get Consulting Clients. So this one was kind of number six or I think I gave a number six. So this might be a number seven is get rid of friction, but it's July 14th. It's at 11:00 AM Pacific Time, 2:00 PM Eastern Time.

When you register, you're going to get this cool, helpful tool that is going to help you develop your value proposition. I would say at the heart of any consulting business is having your value proposition completely clarified. And the second thing would be having a sales funnel, so you know ultimately how you're going to get business. Those are two of the most important things that you have to have at the heart of your business, but you're going to get a tool for the value proposition for how to do that.

Now, if for some reason you hear this after July 14th, 2022, don't worry about it. I'm going to have other opportunities for you to take this masterclass. There will be more coming, but for anybody who hears this ahead of time, don't miss it. If for some reason you can't make it, don't worry about it. Anybody who registers and all the information's going to be below for registering on my website, you're going to get access to a replay. Nobody else gets access to that but you. So looking forward to having you on that masterclass and if you have any questions about friction, it is also live so you can ask me about friction, you can ask me about getting business, you can ask me about pricing, whatever you like so I will see you there.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Craft of Consulting Podcast. I want to ask you to do actually three things. If you enjoyed this episode or you've enjoyed any of my other ones, hit subscribe. I got a lot of other great guests that are coming up in a lot of other great content, and I don't want you to miss anything. But the other two things that I'm going to ask you to do is one is if you have any comments. So if you have any suggestions or any kind of feedback that will help make this podcast more helpful to more listeners, please include those.

And then the last thing is, again, if you've gotten something out of this, share it, share it with somebody you know who's a consultant or thinking about being a consultant. And make sure that they also have access to all this great content and all the other great content that's going to be coming up. So as always, you can go and get more wonderful information and tools at Thanks so much. I will talk to you on the next episode. Bye-bye.

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